Hiring and Scaling in Family Law: Tips from Catherine Medina

Viktoria Altman (00:00)
Hey guys, welcome to the Law Firm Accelerator podcast. Today with me I have Catherine Medina. Catherine, can you introduce yourself and talk a little bit about what you practice

Catherine Medina (00:10)
Yes, my name is Catherine Medina. I am a divorce and family law attorney with my own practice, Medina Family Law Associates that is located in Glendale in Phoenix, Arizona.

Viktoria Altman (00:22)
Okay, and Catherine, I really appreciate you joining us today. Can you tell me a little bit about your practice and why you decided to go into family law?

Catherine Medina (00:30)
So I have had the practice now for three years. Actually, yesterday was our third year anniversary. I started working with the prior owner of the firm, Terry Smith, back in 2021, right before she retired. And I actually discovered that she was going to be retiring and approached her about purchasing the firm because I knew it was for sale and I didn’t want to look for a new job. And so she said yes, it was a lot of paperwork after that, but eventually we got up and running. And I basically just assumed her practice and we’ve been running since

Viktoria Altman (01:09)
Okay, so you started off as an associate and then very quickly you bought a practice. What were some of the challenges you faced and what were some of the positive points about buying a practice like that? So maybe some tips you could share with our listeners who are considering buying a practice.

Catherine Medina (01:27)
I think there’s a lot of benefits to buying a practice as opposed to starting from the ground up. Buying the practice meant that I already had clients and a lot of systems already in place that I just had to sort of assume. And I was able to purchase a lot of her own templates. I mean, I kept everything essentially. And so because I was newer just still learning the family law industry. I had a lot of templates, so there was always another sample that I could pull from her prior cases. And so that was really invaluable, being able to just have those resources as opposed to just starting completely on my own with no clients. That would have been a completely different challenge.

Viktoria Altman (02:11)
Okay, and what about the marketing aspect? You know, you mentioned there was a name change involved, which is very common with law offices. How did you approach the name change? Has it been easy to create a new brand for yourself? Talk to me about

Catherine Medina (02:25)
I think it took some time and a part of that was because her practice was under a different name and it was closing, but people would still call or go online and search for that practice or her name. And so we had to make sure that when they searched for her firm, our new firm would come up. And for a little bit there, we had her name still associated. She was sort of this of counsel role that was still consulting with me on some things.

And then she, as time progressed, really took a step away, no longer was involved. And so we had to change the name again. And so we finally settled just this year on Medina Family Law Associates. And so we’re still in that process of making sure that if someone’s looking for her, they can still find my website, find that we’ve taken over, but we still get a lot of referrals for people looking for her. So I think it’s working, whatever we’re doing.

Viktoria Altman (03:22)
Okay, so whenever you change a brand whether it be because somebody’s somebody’s retiring or for whatever reason It’s important to update all of the directories such as Ava, Justia, because those are the ones that Google pulls from when it decides where to sort you. There’s also a lot of non -specialized directories out there that she may have built over the years. So there’s something called a citation audit where we actually go in and we actually look for all instances of her name on her variation of a name online. make a huge spreadsheet

This is sort of the very difficult part. You kind of have to go in and you have to contact every one of them and say, hey, by the way, we’ve updated. Here’s the new logo. Here’s a new website. Here’s the new name. Please update us. And then have to follow up with them. So it’s a process to take, you know, yourself. And then of course, social media has to be updated as well. So it’s a process. It’s worth it because what you’re doing is you’re creating a brand in Google and Google really sorts things in entities and your brand is your entity. But it certainly can be a very long process. So I always advise my clients, think long and hard before you change your name. And the name should be, another tip is the name should be unique. If there is another law firm out there that has a very similar name, Google is going to confuse you, especially at first, even if they’re not in the same location. So it’s important to have the right amount of citations, which is directory listings to do, let’s say a press release that announces the change from your old name to your new name because Google will index that and it will help you sort. And of course, in your Google My Business listing, it’s also important to list your new social media as well so that everything is kind of connected. If makes sense.

Catherine Medina (05:08)
Yeah, that’s a good point. I, that makes me think back did a update on my Google profile when we did the name change this year, because like you said, it was trying to make sure we got it out there. And then the problem too, with some attorneys that have no oversight with this kind of stuff, like the prior attorney, she didn’t really deal with this marketing social media stuff. So when we needed to take over the Facebook that she already had with followers and all of her blog posts, she didn’t know how to log into it and we couldn’t get access to it. And so we were stuck just creating a new one.

Viktoria Altman (05:41)
Yeah. Yeah. So unfortunately Google will have the old one indexed. There’s actually a trick to it. You can actually write to Facebook and they may or may not respond, but then you can write to them again. I’ve had to do this. I’ve had assistants who’d contact Facebook as much as a dozen times and eventually somebody will respond. But it’s very important because Google has one page index and that one page is associated with everything else online. So if you don’t take over the page, it could be an issue with branding. Everything has to sort of be consistent. So it sounds like you’re kind of on the right track. I know as an attorney, you’re probably very busy running your practice and doing marketing while running your practice can be pretty overwhelming. How do you balance the two?

Catherine Medina (06:27)
I think I got to a point last year towards the end of last year where I really realized that I can’t do it all on my own anymore and I need to figure out how to delegate and farm out these responsibilities from the business side because I still do have a full calendar of clients. I realized that I need to hire other people to help me other attorneys. And so I made that decision at the beginning of the year and I have two other people that are working with clients and doing what I was doing before going to trial and that has allowed me to have more time to focus on the marketing. So now my role is sort of shifting into the senior managing attorney, helping them with their cases as they move on, bringing in more business and making sure that our name gets out there so that people are calling us and we continue to bring in more business.

Viktoria Altman (07:20)
So it sounds like you’re doing a lot of the overseeing. Now I know some folks are struggling with hiring lawyers and everybody seems to kind of have their own way to do it. Would you mind sharing some of your secrets? How do you find your lawyers?

Catherine Medina (07:31)
Yeah, absolutely. I have to say that they’re not my secrets. I did hire a business coach at the beginning of the year to help me scale. And so she had a whole module, a whole course on how to hire. And I think the biggest sort of secret, if you will, is that you have to be patient. And I’m not a patient person. And so when I first put my ad out there and I didn’t get amazing resumes back or a ton of bites from people, I was just like, my gosh, I’m never going to find someone.

And then I also think I was devoting time and resources to the wrong job posting platforms. I’ve always had a LinkedIn, but I’ve never really used it to hire. And so once I switched over to LinkedIn, I got really great applicants. I actually also, another attorney gave me this input. I changed my job posting I tried to weave in my firm’s cultural values into the job posting, and then I changed the very first sentence. I made it something really kind of like catching. If you read it, I think it was something like, you tired of billing a ton of hours for large firms? And then went into how we’re a smaller firm and have different approaches. And then I got my ideal applicant like within a week of posting on there.

Viktoria Altman (08:52)
That’s brilliant suggestion. It works in all kinds of industries. But yeah, a couple of people have shared that LinkedIn is a great way to go. And certainly as somebody, also advertise for employees, although they’re not lawyers, adding your company culture can be very helpful because it can help you stand out. But also those people who have a lot of options, they will be more interested more than just the minimum of how much am I getting paid, what hours am I working? They’re also going to want a certain lifestyle. And those are the people you want to work for you, right? You want the people who have a lot of options, because those are going to be the best employees. Yeah, that’s a great tip. Thank you for sharing that. So this is a podcast about marketing and you have been handling your own marketing from what I understand for a couple of years. So can you share some of the things that you feel are working best for you as a lawyer who is also right in the practice.

Catherine Medina (09:44)
I think the number one thing that’s easy for everyone to do is just start paying attention to where your marketing is working. And we’ve always tracked in our intake forms when we’re consulting with clients, you know did you hear about us? Was it through another prior client, a referral from someone that knows us, Google? And so once I started really paying attention to how people were coming to us, I started focusing more on what was working. And so I think that’s the number one thing is just what’s actually working. I don’t know how often attorneys are looking at that information. I feel like it’s something that can be looked at on a daily basis and then spend more time doing that. so I also, for a long time, have been posting on TikTok. And so I wanted to see what engagement I was getting on there. And I’ve been able to get reach a lot of people, I should say, and even had people schedule consultations, but what I’m finding is that it’s not actually turning into many clients that retain. Still the thing that’s working most is Google and even Facebook and Instagram. So that’s what I’m devoting more of my time

Viktoria Altman (11:00)
That makes sense. So in that line of thinking, who is your ideal client? How old are they and where are they located and what social media are they using? And based on what you just said, I think I already kind of have an idea of where they

Catherine Medina (11:14)
Yeah. And you know, very recently, I actually wrote down the demographics of my ideal client as a part of my business coaching and trying to figure out my marketing. so my ideal client is someone between the age ranges of 35 and 60. They are seeking a divorce. They either have minor children or don’t. I don’t have a preference either way. Ideally, they live within the surrounding area of my office.

We’re talking Glendale, Peoria, Buckeye Surprise area. they are the type of people that, you know, they just want to get divorced. They don’t want to spend a lot of money and they don’t want to spend a lot of time doing that. And they just need a little bit of help, a little bit of legal guidance from an attorney to tell them, this is what you’re entitled to.

And keep them out of court. mean, that’s our biggest thing is like, if we can get people divorced outside of court, let’s do that. We think it will make people happier and allow you to move on with your life a lot sooner than some other people that unfortunately stay in the court system for years or continue to return to the court system. So our ideal client are people that really aren’t focused on winning or losing. You know, they just want what’s fair, what they’re legally entitled to and to just be able to move

Viktoria Altman (12:39)
So that makes a lot of sense and based on your ideal clients, for our listeners out there, it’s so important to have your ideal client before you start marketing. Because you need to understand where are these people hanging out? Where are they searching for somebody like you? Where are they getting their information? And for instance, a lot of folks are like, I should be on TikTok, but is that where your ideal client at? And it sounds like you got some success on TikTok, but that because it’s not a place where your ideal client sort of resides.

it’s not going to pay off as much in terms of return. Although maybe in a couple of years, that’s where your ideal client is going to move. They’re not there right now. So it’s very important to understand your profile before you understand what kind of marketing should be done. And the other thing that’s important is how long is your sale cycle? Because for instance, if I’m speaking with a criminal lawyer, their sale cycle is almost immediate, right? Somebody needs a criminal lawyer right now. Whereas for a family law attorney, chances are they’re doing a little research before they get ready to make the move. So they might be checking you out on social. They might be checking you out in, you know, even maybe on YouTube. And then maybe they’re going to your website and they’re doing all that research chances are with you and your competitors and sort of evaluating you against each other. Because, you know, a lot of people, it’s hard to push that, you know, that lever for a lot of people. So it sounds like a you’re doing a lot of the things correctly, which is really focusing on the longer sale cycle, the Facebook, Instagram, that kind of thing, because that’s where they’re doing their research. Makes a lot of sense. Let’s go back to your website. In the pre -interview, you mentioned you’re a lot of writing for yourself. Is that right?

Catherine Medina (14:14)
I have not done it just yet. That’s something that I’m doing right now is starting to do my own blog post. But before it was a different marketing company that was just generating something for me every

Viktoria Altman (14:37)
And so we spoke a little bit about this before we started. This industry is entirely unregulated. My industry, the marketing industry is completely unregulated. And so the quality of the work you’re going to get is going to be very, very mixed. One of the other things that’s going to really depend on the agency is whether or not you get to keep your content if you decide to leave

Now, it’s very important for anybody listening out there that you read through that contract. And it’s so funny for me to say it, right? Because I’m working with lawyers, but you’d be surprised how many didn’t know that they weren’t entitled to the content. So is the content yours to keep and do you have it on your new website now?

Catherine Medina (15:06)
Yeah. I do, yes. And I just lucked out with it.

Viktoria Altman (15:16)
Yeah, sometimes that happens. So some of the tips I would love to give you is about how to make a blog post rank. Now it sounds like you’ve paid for a lot of content and I’m just looking at your website right now. There is a ton on here, but none of it is ranking, right? We have seven pages worth of content, seven pages of nine blog posts per page worth of content and none of it is ranking. There are two ways essentially to make lawyer content. The first way is by taking a marketing agency who is going to create content that’s going to be legally correct, well researched, but it’s not going to be unique or original, right? Because I don’t have lawyers, for instance, writing for me. On the other hand, the other thing you can do is create content as a lawyer. And when you are able to create content as a lawyer, what you’re going to do is you’re going to use your cases, you’re going to use your research, and you’re going to make much more original, unique content.

I have a client in Chicago who is also a divorce lawyer and he loves to write his own blog posts. He, this is his thing. He loves it. And so he posts sometimes two, three, four, five, even blog posts a week. And what we do is we don’t touch his content because he told me the first thing he said, Victoria, do not touch my content. was like, yes, sir. but we will go in and we will create backlinks to those blog posts. We will post them on social media. So anytime you create a blog post or anytime you have a blog post that was written before, what you should do is go back to it if it’s not getting you views already. The first thing you want to do obviously is you want to, if it wasn’t written by you or it wasn’t written by a marketing agency you trust, you want to review and make sure that it’s correct. You want to make sure it’s not copied from somewhere. And the next thing you want to do is you want to add about 200 words to the content. And we do this as part of our process, but if you’re doing it yourself, you want to, something that makes sense in the blog post but also goes more in depth and answers more questions. But all you need is about 200 words. Then you take the blog post and you republish it with today’s date. And what you can do is you can create an AI video where basically it takes a little bit of text from your blog post and uses some images and you post it on YouTube. Now the reason why you do this is because by posting it on YouTube, what you’re doing is you’re telling Google, Hey, there is a blog post. I’m linking to it from the video and I have all of this, you know, new information. should go check it out. You should also post about it on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Google, my business listing. And if possible, if it’s a good blog post, you can get suppressed releases. Now, if you do that, you will blow those blog posts out of, know, out of the air. Like I have clients come in and all the time who have old blog posts that haven’t done anything for them.

And once we start doing that process, we go from zero to thousands of views in just a couple of months. So if you can do that consistently, that will make you a lot of money very quickly, especially if it’s original unique content. Even if it’s like recycled content, will, but if it’s unique content, it’s really kind of the best thing you can do. So hopefully that helps. I am happy to share with you a checklist we have. It’s a 50 step checklist that we do in my agency happy to share it with you so you can, yeah, we do, put a lot of work into it, but, in a way it’s easy for me, right? Because I don’t have to, like, all I have to do is just mark, mark the steps. Like, it’s not like we have to reinvent the wheel here and we can get so much amazing traffic to our clients and it doesn’t require, you know, incredible like creativity. We just have to do it step by step, if that makes sense.

Catherine Medina (18:54)
Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s all really great, great advice. The AI videos and taking that, I mean, I’ve seen that recently too. And it’s just amazing that you can do that

Viktoria Altman (19:05)
Yeah, yeah, you can and you should. And a lot of people are still not like, I will still look through websites done by big agencies and a lot of them still want to do it. You know, it’s a little bit of extra effort. It’s a little bit of extra elbow grease. But especially if you have good, unique content written by a lawyer, it’s so worth it. I’ll be happy to share with you some numbers of what kind of kind of results it brings later. So you are, we kind of got off topic a little bit. What would you say is your what you’re doing in marketing that’s working well for you? What is your kind of best tip for listeners out.

Catherine Medina (19:41)
kind of to your point, make it unique. Cause a lot of my old blog posts are just stuff that I, I didn’t write that. That was just something that was selected, but now that I’m in control and now that I know my ideal client, I know more about the content that I want to be putting out there. It’s not just, you know, let’s just write something really basic about, you know, child support and, or, you know, custody.

It’s trying to speak to my ideal client. I’m trying to get into their minds and think about what questions they may have, what issues they may be thinking about when they can’t go to bed at night or thinking, you know, why would I want to hire this attorney? So I try and think from their perspective and put that content out there, but I also put my own voice on it because like you said before, they’re usually shopping for other attorneys. And I always tell people, if you’re shopping or you want to speak to other attorneys, you should. I mean, we may not be a great fit, and you want to work with someone that’s a good fit. And I want to work with a client that’s a good fit, too. So I’m really honest with people. I mean, that is one of our core values is just be honest and upfront and ask that they are the same with me so that we can have a good working relationship because it’s very, I think easy to go and speak to an attorney and they’re just going to tell you what you want to hear because they want your business. And I don’t think that’s a sustainable business practice. So I’m not going to put that type of stuff in my content either. I’m just going to try and be real and honest with.

Viktoria Altman (21:11)
That makes a lot of sense and some of the most successful attorneys I speak with, they tell me things like, I don’t take on a lot of clients, I won’t take on a client that’s not part of my kind of ideal client base. I speak especially for people who are just starting out with their own practices. It can be hard to turn a client away if they’re not falling into that ideal category. How do you deal with that? Do you turn people away if they’re not quite where you’re looking?

Catherine Medina (21:37)
Absolutely. I think in the beginning, like you said, because you’re starting a new business, you don’t turn people away. I mean, I would just take anyone that was saying that they wanted to hire me. But now we do often tell people, you know, we may not be a good fit. If you want a certain thing and we practice a little bit differently, then we think you would be better off somewhere else. And we often refer people to other firms, other attorneys that they may be a good fit for because when we’re doing a consult, it’s not just about what is your legal issue. We’re trying to identify whether they would be a good fit and whether we would be a good attorney to advocate for them. So we have no problem saying, look, we don’t think that we are a good fit for you.

Viktoria Altman (22:21)
That’s a great business practice and like you said, it could help you grow a sustainable business focusing on the people you can serve best. And I do the same thing in my agency. I’ll turn people away all the time because I know I can’t quite get them where they need to go because they’re looking for a different type of resource. So it sounds like what you’re doing correctly is you’re really being true to yourself, to your client profile, and you are doing more personalized type marketing getting referrals, giving referrals is another great technique, Greg, because you’ll be getting them as well. What would you say is your least successful thing that you’ve done when it comes to marketing? And what should people stay away from?

Catherine Medina (23:01)
I would say just not paying attention to it. In the beginning days, I did not pay attention to our blog posts. I didn’t really pay attention to where we were getting clients from. I was just always kind of like, well, the phone keeps ringing. So I guess whatever is working is, is, is fine. And I don’t need to make any changes. And now I’ve done a complete one 80 from that. So I think my biggest mistake was really just not paying attention. The other thing that I’ve realized too is I think being a perfectionist as a business owner is really going to hurt you because especially as attorneys, wanna be, we’re so competitive, we wanna be the best at everything and that’s just going to throw you into analysis paralysis and you’re never gonna get anything done. And so when I first started posting content, I was so worried about, well, is this perfect? Do I like the way that I’m saying that? Could I have said it better?

I really just had to get used to like, just put it out there, get your name out there, don’t think about it. It’s better to get it done than for it to be perfect for me. And so that’s what I think a lot of attorneys struggle with is cause we want so much control. We want so much perfection and that’s not, that’s going to prevent you from having growth.

Viktoria Altman (24:16)
Yes, better done than perfect and control is going to prevent you from having growth. That is so true. Unfortunately, once in a while I’ll have a client come to me and they want so much control over things that may be not in the area of expertise that I have to tell them I can’t work with them because I can’t get them from point A to point B if they have to make every decision. You know what I mean? And so many folks are afraid to do the marketing because they don’t understand enough about look, there’s resources out there. You know, can listen to podcasts and read books and, you know, educate yourself on it and, you know, supervise people. Perfectionism definitely gets in the people’s ways for sure.

Catherine Medina (24:56)
Yeah, absolutely. I’m not good at all things, so if I’m gonna hire someone to do something, I’m gonna leave it to them.

Viktoria Altman (25:02)
Yeah, exactly. Like if you’re going to hire a good lawyer, you’re not going to tell them how to practice, you know. So you have to find good marketing and then you have to supervise, of course, but not like try to make every single little decision. So moving back to your practice, family law can be very emotionally charged. And you spoke about how you like kind of low conflict cases. Now, how do you ensure that your clients sort of stay in that low conflict zone, how do you support.

Catherine Medina (25:32)
So we always try to minimize expectations from the very first conversation that we’re having with someone. And so if someone’s consulting with us and they’re telling us what they want and we know that that is unlikely or that they may not have enough to support that position in a court before a judge, then we’re going to be honest with them about that. And we don’t make any guarantees to anyone. That’s the other thing. I think there may be some attorneys out there that are telling people something you know, they take that to mean that that’s absolutely going to happen or not going to happen. And I just think that you can never know. And so minimizing expectations is really important. I mean, we really do try to keep things out of the high conflict area, but sometimes you just you can only do so much. And so our role to as the attorney is to keep a level head, work with clients that may be in that high conflict area and make sure to sort of talk them off the ledge.

And especially if you’re a high conflict, you’re going to need to be able to be in the court system for the long haul more than likely if you’re not going to reach agreements. And so you really have to work with your clients to just say, look, I know that you’re going through a lot. This is not an easy process, but we can’t make decisions off of high emotions. And so we’re that sort of level head that’s in the middle saying, no, we just need to wait. This is the process. You’ve got to trust me.

Because if you make a decision based off of your emotions while you’re upset, then this is never going to end.

Viktoria Altman (27:00)
That’s a very ethical way to do things. know that having divorced myself, my attorney was wonderful, but I know that there is a lot of attorneys out there who prefer to have a little bit more conflict so that they can continue to work with the clients or for whatever reason, they prefer to have a little bit more conflict. So certainly finding an attorney who can defuse the situation is probably harder than it sounds but also probably a good thing in the long run, right? Because nobody really wins with a very long divorce case unless you’re like a billionaire.

Catherine Medina (27:35)
No, I don’t think there’s ever any winning or losing in family court. I really stay away from using that terminology because it is people’s lives and it is a lot of the times their children. And so I tell people, look, you just want to be able to walk away with something that you can live with, both of you that you can live with. But if you don’t think that your life is going to change, then you’re in for a rude awakening.

Viktoria Altman (27:57)
And so, you know, it’s a emotionally charged situation. People are upset. How do you help them kind of move on with their lives? What do you help? Is there anything that you guys do that’s unique to your firm to help them kind of close this chapter and just move on.

Catherine Medina (28:10)
I think, you know, if we feel like a client is struggling to maybe accept something or, and that’s preventing them from moving forward in their case, then we’ll just be honest and tell them that. And, you know, we are the attorneys, we’re not the therapists, but a lot of our role does get blended with the role of a therapist, but we’re really just the legal counsel here to help you get to the other side but we are working with people that are dealing with a lot of emotions and they’re going through a change in their life and they’re not over it yet. And that’s understandable, but we want to help them get there. I think just the ideal client as well as someone that is receptive to what their attorney is telling them. I mean, we’ve all had clients that, you know, we can tell them something and they’re never going to take it. You know, they’re never going to listen. And that’s not, that’s not an ideal client. Like if you don’t want to be receptive then why did you hire me? So we just have to be honest and upfront and tell them like, look, you’ve got to move on and we’re here to help you do

Viktoria Altman (29:08)
Yes. So it sounds like you have some very unique advantages in your area. Where are you looking to go next? What is your growth, projected growth looking

Catherine Medina (29:23)
So I’m still in the process of scaling. think I’ve hired more people. And so that process is done. I mean, I could probably still hire a few more support staff. But right now, our growth is really focusing on getting our name out there, continuing to market more, doing more of the unique and tailored blog post written by me. Because I want people to really understand our firm and who we are before they even make contact with us so that they know when they call us, I think this attorney would be a good fit for me. I always want a certain number of consults on my calendar for the week. And so at beginning of every week, when I look and I see, okay, we’ve got this many, I want to get to more, or I’ve got to pay attention to the next week, are we getting more set for the following week? And so that’s what I’m really focusing on right now in addition to just marketing more.

Viktoria Altman (30:17)
Makes sense. So are you seeing yourself as a much larger law firm, let’s say in five years, are you seeing 15 attorneys, 20 attorneys? So do you kind of want to stay small and flexible?

Catherine Medina (30:26)
I definitely want to stay small. think I would never go to a large sized law firm. I’ve worked in those before being an attorney. It’s just not a good fit for me. And I don’t also want to manage that many people, but I think a mid -sized firm is really the most that I would do. But we also tailor ourselves as being better because we are a small size firm. When you call us, you’re gonna know who’s on the phone. It’s not like you’re going to be calling a firm that has 50 attorneys. We’re a small team, we’re sort of family oriented, and so you know who you’re working with.

Viktoria Altman (31:03)
Makes a lot of sense. Are there any last words of wisdom you would give to somebody who’s either considering buying a practice or considering starting their own practice in the field of family law? Any tips?

Catherine Medina (31:13)
Yeah, I mean, it’s not for the faint of heart. I’m sure everyone says that to be a business owner, really is. It takes up so much of your time. But if you but it’s also a lot of fun. If you can let go, it can be a lot of fun. It can be really stressful. But if you are gung ho and you’re ready to do this, then it can be a lot of fun. And I think

Like I was saying before, if you’re a perfectionist or you struggle to let go of control, this is probably not it for you unless you want to be doing every single thing in your law firm and have no time, then, you know, probably work for someone else.

Viktoria Altman (31:50)
Yeah, yeah, let go of perfectionism a little bit and be brave. And I also love doing my own business. I think everybody should do it, you know, but you just have to be willing to let go of some control. I love that as a lesson. Thank you so much for joining me today. Catherine, thank you so much. This was very helpful. Stick around so we can upload this and I will see you guys next time.

Catherine Medina (32:04)
Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you.