Reinventing Yourself at 45: Jane Fowler’s Journey into Law and Entrepreneurship

Viktoria Altman:  Hey guys, welcome to the Law Firm Accelerator. Today with us we have Jane Fowler, who is an estate and family attorney based in Texas. Jane, welcome to the show. Please introduce yourself and tell us what you’re all about.

Jane Fowler: Hi, I’m Jane Fowler and I’m proof that life doesn’t end at 40 because I didn’t start law school until 45 and I’m here to tell you it can be done.

Viktoria Altman: I love it. All right, so it can be done. Tell me why you decided to go back to law school and tell us a little bit about your practice.

Jane Fowler: Okay. I was the person who knew way back whenever I was in elementary school, insert Perry Mason and other references here, that I thought I wanted to be an attorney whenever I grew up.

And I went to high school, I graduated, I took that one semester off to get married that of course lasted 20 years and three more marriages and a couple of divorces along the way. And  recognized. At 45, it was still what I wanted to do. So I did what anybody would do. I said, okay, I can go back to undergrad.

I did it. Well, if I apply for law school, they need to accept me. And surprisingly, somehow they did. And I started that journey in 2006. And in 2015, I had graduated from law school. And in 2016, I started practicing law and I haven’t stopped since. I primarily focus on family law. With an emphasis also on estate planning and probate because family is all encompassing from when you’re born until long after you pass.

I take my job seriously as an attorney and counselor at law because I recognize we are here to take care of our clients in the legal process and make sure they come out of it emotionally intact as well. That’s me.

Viktoria Altman: So you took a bit of an unusual path, tell me when you opened your law firm,  you probably brought in some of your background from your earlier career.

Now, how did you use that background to kind of put yourself ahead of the competition? Do you use it in marketing and in promoting your law office? Tell me about that.

Jane Fowler: Well, I do come into it with a slightly different toolbox. I do have a degree in business, and I had had a previous background in corporate finance and accounting.

So the first thing that I recognized is a smart person with a strong background hires people. I recognized I needed practice management software to make sure that I kept everything in line. I made sure that I had a person who was going to do my bookkeeping, a person who was also going to do my taxes separately from my bookkeeping, and that a smart person does not know it all and they recognize the need for support around them to do the job correctly.

I enlisted a person who owed me a favor, to be quite honest, not necessarily the best way to go about it,  but I made sure I had a web presence also as soon as possible. This isn’t the 80s and the 90s, this is , 2024 now, and you do not go out into business without people knowing how to type your name in and find you.

And kind of a promoter by nature, one of my many jobs also included one year as. An on air personality for a radio station and advertising and promoting is big in whatever form you’re able to do it most appropriately. So basically shouting it from the rooftops because how else are you going to go in at fifty two and all of a sudden have people paying attention to you.

So these were the things I did to get started.

Viktoria Altman: That makes a lot of sense. Tell me about your job as a radio personality and talk to me about how specifically you’re using those skills to promote yourself. What are you doing today to get your name out there?

and what did you learn from your  job?

Jane Fowler: Well, in the early nineties, I was talking to a person at work. And they said, Hey, I work for a radio station and you’re an outgoing person. So you ought to apply for our radio station. We’re going to have an overnight person that we need for fill in on the weekends.

So I went in and said, you need to hire me. And they said, why? I said, because I’m outgoing and I think you’ll like me and it’ll work. And surprisingly enough, they did.

They stuck me on the air for two weeks. And then the person who wasn’t sure he wanted me to survive or not, said, Oh, it is your turn to sing our Dodge jingle on the air. Because that’s one of the things they require is the spots.

So I just jumped out and I did my best imitation of a 60s Motown singer and all of a sudden I had a job. But I learned you have to be there, willing to try things, willing to do strange things. I’ve applied through other jobs is don’t be afraid to try new things. Don’t be afraid to try to figure it  out. And most importantly, go out there and say, yes, I can do this.

I’m willing to do it for you. assume the answer you’re going to get to the question is yes. Too many people worry about whether people will or will not accept them or take them on or give them the job. If you know what you’re doing, they’re going to say yes. Most of the time they do.

Viktoria Altman: What are some of the things you’ve tried with your law office that you wouldn’t have tried otherwise?

Jane Fowler: I have been practicing for eight years and I’m hopefully, going to be recognized by Thomson Reuters as a rising star for the sixth year in a row That would be lovely. Five is wonderful. I will not complain, As a solo person who did not have, the traditional big farm backing, I was just out there and just jumping in the trenches and doing things.

I’ve had people call and say, do you think that you can do a little bit  of tax lien foreclosure. I went, well, gee, I had this in my background a little bit as part of collections. Some of the process is the same. I do a lot of side work for a major Texas boutique log firm across the state as one of their point people to go in for local representation.

I have a large unnamed firm out of Missouri that I do some work with assisting them in probate practice for their medical malpractice cases. Same thing. They called, said, you think you can do it? Find a way to take the skills that you have, apply them to the new situation. It is amazing the opportunities that open up to you.

Viktoria Altman: You know, it’s funny because some folks I have on the show really focus on specialization and they Constantly turn away folks who are not quite in their purview. It sounds like you kind of went a little bit the other way and opening yourself up to opportunities that maybe weren’t in your purview originally.

Jane Fowler: I think that  that’s one of the things, at least given my situation. I’m doing very different things than where I started. I’m nowhere near where I was 10 years ago But I think it’s a delicate balance.

If you can relate. your existing skills to something new, you should definitely be open to it. However, conversely, what some people will do in an attempt to open up is they go beyond their capabilities. You have to know when it’s time to say, this is not for me, but let me send you to one of my friends.

I’m very happy to say that there are parts of the law that I do not go anywhere near, but I make a point of networking and knowing somebody who does. Networking is also a very important part of this. I know if I have a criminal case, not only do I know that I know a criminal attorney, but I know different people that are better at different aspects.

And I happily send them along. If I know people who need  certain civil actions that I know are not appropriate to me, I make sure I send them and I do so willingly. I’m proud to say, not only do I get business from other attorneys, I sometimes have attorneys as clients.

Viktoria Altman: Makes sense. So, networking is an extraordinarily valuable, way to market yourself. Talk to me about some of your favorite networking opportunities and how you pursue them .

Jane Fowler: I spent time as a law student, As a liaison to a couple of the local bar associations, found myself that way as a student still as a board member of sorts.

So I got to see not only other attorneys from bar functions but at one point I was president of the Arlington Young Lawyers Association in Tarrant County.

You meet lots of people that way and you get to meet people who have been around a while as well as your peers or even people that you’re able to Act as a mentor for.  I also found being active in the community makes a difference. I’m currently on the board of directors for a local water utility.

And our career, it becomes sometimes one of those things where there is the temptation to just walk around and not be the attorney when you get off work, because it can get, I don’t want to say taxing or tedious, but yeah, sometimes you don’t want to be you all day long.

You just want to become that person in the background , but don’t be afraid to be you. And I’ll talk to people and I literally had one client that I got while I was on a cruise ship and somehow over the course of conversation, they found out who I was, always have cards available, always, always, always the strangest place you’re at.

Always have your cards available. I’m like, sure, here you go. And the card was pretty dog eared by the time the client came in, but it was a friend who passed it to a friend  who passed it to a relative. And all of a sudden I had a client from a cruise ship. But

Jane Fowler: not being afraid to set limits, but be yourself all the time. We sometimes have a tendency to shut on and shut off when we’re attorneys to avoid the questions. But in all of the professions that I’ve had, it doesn’t take that long to give anybody 60 seconds.

You don’t have to hear the whole life story. You don’t have to do everything. But if you give a person 60 seconds on why they like you, they remember you later and it makes a difference.

Viktoria Altman: I’m in digital marketing and I only work with lawyers, but Everywhere I go, everybody wants digital marketing advice.

It’s almost like being a lawyer or doctor, except that there’s fewer people who have the skills than it appears with you guys because we are unregulated. So, anybody can call themselves a digital marketer, whereas with you guys, you have all this oversight and, to call yourself a lawyer, you have to  obviously have

Jane Fowler: darn bar associations.

Viktoria Altman: In my industry, anybody can call themselves digital marketers. So what happens is a lot of people end up having had bad experiences and then they ask for advice and they don’t know where to turn, I’m very selective about my clients, about who I work with, but I’m happy to give as much free advice as I can.

And I do sometimes end up speaking about digital marketing for an entire evening, because. You do want to be open to people needing your help, but at the same time, sometimes it does get pretty tiring.

Jane Fowler: . yes, I do understand where that comes from. you are a person. I also vetted before speaking with you for the same reason. I think that 1 of the things that it’s inherent for us to do is, hey, I know some of the best lawyer jokes in the world, but I also think it’s important for us as attorneys to help promote the legal profession is not being just the butt of the lawyer jokes. I mean  we Do provide a service. We are a profession. We do rank right up there with doctors in the preparation we have to do. And as we’re going towards the Walmart technology, Oh, you can get this on do your own will. com make your own divorce. com. The problem is these are people that are going out there with generic forms one size fits all for every situation, and that’s not how the practice of law works. I’m not you, you’re not me, people in the next room are not either one of us either, and you can’t have one form, one document done on a computer that’s going to replace the training, the ability to associate, individual circumstances and make  them come together in a way that’s going to be successful.

and that’s a responsibility you have as a part of this profession, trying to help people understand,

so it’s, Very important to me to talk to each individual person to know, one, that I can help them. Two, that I’m the right person to do it. And three come up with the plan that’s going to work for them as opposed to the next person who comes in the door.

Viktoria Altman: you talk about this extensively on your website.

Our philosophy people always ask why they cannot have their legal issues resolved for a flat fee I tell them because everyone is unique Tell me what you need. We’ll work together. I am your lawyer. so that makes a lot of sense.

So talk to me a little bit about who your ideal client is. Who is the demographic you’re going after and marketing to?

Jane Fowler: It’s going to be a person who, lives in the state of Texas, because that’s the only place where I’m licensed. That’s a difficult question. I mean if i’m going to be  a little tacky I’d say obviously somebody who can afford me that does help but guess whenever i’m talking to a person. It’s a person who has a need that I can fulfill a case that I can advance to move them forward. And , like I said, that whole thing about the afford me is probably one of the least important aspects of it.

Whenever I was going through my personal time going through child care and divorce issues, I had met an attorney out of McKinney who had told me that you always take the clients that you have to, to be in a position to take the clients that you need to take. And at that time, I think I was one of the needs because I sure wasn’t one of the affords, but, he basically said, be open because people will always pay your bills if  you’re making sure that you’re taking care of that person who occasionally comes in that, doesn’t fit that traditional request. One of the cases I enjoyed taking care of happened in the first couple of years of practice. I had known a lady that I’d done various work for and she called me about one of her neighbors who lived out in the country, he was a disabled veteran, he actually was going through cancer treatments and he would hunt on his property for his meat, it was one of the ways that he was able to survive and he got into what we will call a little bit of an emotional battle of the wills with the local, game warden because the next door neighbor wanted to put a deer stand that was right up on the edge of his property. So he might have fouled it out a little bit to make sure it wasn’t effective.

So the game warden came through and he recognized at one point my client had not renewed his  hunting license. Poaching in Texas is a big deal and it comes with a very large fine . And I learned a whole lot about poaching and about hunting licenses. proper service, proper information on tickets, etc. And long story short, that ticket was dismissed. We made sure he got his license renewed, and he was able to continue to hunt for his food. Now, even back then, I put a substantial amount of time and hours in this.

But ultimately I charged him 75 but it was an amount of money when he said, how much do I owe you? I need to pay you. He went, well, I guess that sounds fair. And he scrounged it up and I almost framed the check instead of depositing it,

But if I had said, oh, I’ll do it for free, his pride would have been severely hurt because he was not the type of person who was going to take a handout from anybody.

Jane Fowler: case I needed to take. and  it still makes me feel that I did the right thing.

Viktoria Altman: It’s a beautiful story. I appreciate you sharing that. it almost sounds like a pro bono case. and it’s so interesting because everybody I speak with I ask the question of who your ideal client is.

And I always get very different responses. the reason why I ask is because as a digital marketer, one of the things that I try to impart to folks I speak with is that the only way you can market yourself is if you know the demographic you’re marketing to. , you might be able to, of course, market yourself in other ways, But I can’t market it for you unless I know the demographic you’re going after, right?

Because when it comes to Google and when it comes to social media, we have to be able to split the users into specific groups. For instance, you know for a fact that you want a client who is located in Texas, Probably it’s going to be several counties in Texas, but beyond that, most lawyers, like you kind of go into, well, I like this kind of person  and maybe this kind of person.

But if you come to a marketer and you say that it’s going to be hard for us to target that person. So it’s important to determine the specific demographic you’re going after, and it could be multiple demographics, right? It could be people 30 to 45, it could be people of multiple genders, it could be people of, you know, whatever,

Jane Fowler: Your target market is but without knowing that it’s going to be very easy to spend more than you need to on your marketing Let me give you the digital marketers answer now that I gave him a real one. So now let me give you the one you’d be looking for there. I would put a person in the probably 250 and under financial class, preferably above poverty standard if possible.

I don’t zone in on the dollars or the neighborhood. I generally have enough people find me in strange parts of the states that I would probably try to focus on the tri or four county area that was closest to me.

I am much more open on gender and gender fluidity than some, because I do have a background, which is mentioned quite discreetly in my website. I have found being of a certain age life is too short to be miserable, and If you have a different way of wanting to be miserable than my way of being miserable or happy, I am equally open to it because all divorces are divorces, all adoptions are adoptions, all custody actions and probates are custody actions and probates, and what clothing or what name you assign yourself to me is not an issue.

I always make sure that people know that I am open, especially since I do practice in some rural counties where that’s a little bit more of a tenuous situation for them. I obviously stayed in Texas and I’ve never known exactly how to market it other than shouting loudly and being myself, but I actually love to get the person  who has dealt with another attorney who was more traditional and not felt comfortable.

I want people to feel comfortable in my office. I am a family law office where if the only way you’re able to get in and get out of that situation is to bring that child with you, we’re going to find a way to deal with that.

I generally try to do things here in my office. But as I mentioned, as we’re speaking over zoom, I am open to technology.

AI is a thing I’m starting to work with. And I think it’s just another way that you can have some sweet little computer be scribbling the notes that we’d be taking down otherwise.

Viktoria Altman: So some great points there. this is why it’s important to bring these things up with your marketing person. I’m looking to Google business profile right now. So Google actually gives you a way to indicate yourself as queer friendly as trans friendly in your profile.

And if you choose to do that, they will give you a small preference in searches. And I’m looking at your profile right now. I don’t see, that  anybody has set it up for you. This is something you could do yourself, by the way. I can show you. It’ll take you 30 seconds. and so things like that are really important to, make sure that you have.

Every little advantage you can, right? It’s a competitive market out there. if you are, queer friendly, transgender friendly, if you’re women owned, if you’re, African American owned.

If you’re Asian owned, those are all things you can set or veteran owned as well. You can set that on your Google business profile.

You can also incorporate things like queer friendly or LGBTQ friendly into pages. So when people go out there and they look for things like LGBTQ friendly divorce lawyer, because people do, that is a real search a lot of people conduct, you will come up. And that may be a little bit of a unique advantage for you because then, there may or may not be a lot of competitors who feel, comfortable advertising that.

let’s talk about some of the marketing techniques you’re doing. I know you do a lot of networking. I feel like everybody has some marketing they’ve done that they’re like that just did not  work out.

And I love hearing those stories because everybody out there is listening and they’re interested in the things that maybe didn’t work out because they want to know what to avoid, right? Where not to spend money. have you had any marketing failures and what lessons did you take from them?

Jane Fowler: I will say the big rage when I first started practicing was Facebook ads. there is a reason people hire digital marketers because they can go in and zone in on those zip codes and those demographics and they can get you a little closer to the right people.

I will also say there are a lot of people out there that think that if you pay to subscribe to a few of those, shall we say, little ratings based websites out there that give you that confidence rating, blah, blah, blah, that really doesn’t. make much of a difference. I can truthfully say in eight years of practice,  I have had two people on each of the major marketing websites. They’re going google. They’re going to look you up on google. They’re going to look you up on bing They’re going to look you up on yahoo if they can still find it They’re not going to go to those specialized websites Unless you pop up on those websites in the google search.

Viktoria Altman: So a couple of things to unpack there when it comes to Facebook and social media in general, a person when they need a divorce lawyer, they’re not going to go to social media and look through their feed, right?

They’re going to go to Google, they’re going to ask for friends, they’re going to go maybe to Bing. Social media is really a place where you want to nurture the people who already know about you. So let’s say they visited your website. They have not made a decision yet, and you have it in your budget to follow them around on social media every couple of weeks and be like, Hey, remember me?

And this works really well with the estate and not so well with divorce. And you probably understand  why it works well with the estate and not divorce. Nobody wants to see a divorce lawyer in their feed when the spouse is looking over their shoulder. but this is more of a lead nurturing approach.

unless you have a lot of money or you’re already doing really well with SEO and website, you probably don’t want to put any money towards social media when it comes to spending money, these companies will take your money very, very quickly and you have to be very careful with it. It’s their job to take your money. and they will, promote you, but it doesn’t mean that you’re going to make any money in return.

Google ads tends to be better bang for the buck for, people who are searching for. a lawyer right away. So talk to me a little bit about what you are looking for next in estate law in Texas. What are the new developments? What is what’s happening in your industry?

Jane Fowler: Well, and it’s not just in estates, but in family as well.

I guess it would be the fact that recently  the Supreme Court in their attempt to help. The less privileged and the economically challenged that they have attempted as they did with family law forms for divorce and suits affecting the parent child relationship to put out fill in the blank forms for people who are wanting to do their wills.

To try to make it easier for those people to not have to go through administrations. As I stated previously, no two human beings are the same. Their intelligence base, their educational base, their emotional place. None of it is the same. And from what I’ve seen to date in an attempt to be all encompassing, the will forms are very much like the family law forms

I have to read much more carefully on those fill in the blank forms. It is very easy to have one box checked  incorrectly and completely and totally change a legal outcome. And I worry about the people who need the representation, the most having to pay somebody undo the errors that come from this attempt to save money.

Viktoria Altman: Oh boy, do I know that? In my business too, and I think in every business. Yeah, it’s sort of a rock and a hard place, right? Because some of these folks probably don’t even have a few hundred dollars to get their will done. And yet, when they do and there’s a mistake, then it becomes an even more expensive issue.

Jane Fowler: I know that a lot of us try to work with people to make sure that whenever possible, you’re able to get with them. I know, I do not know a lawyer out there that handles probate that when they say we did our will on legal zoom doesn’t cringe.

nothing against the folks at LegalZoom attempting to do their business, they’re trying to do a job, but they’re depending on people to basically understand what it is that  they’re trying to do as they put their forms out there. And I have a person who’s had to spend a sizable amount here this year.

Because her mother went to one of those websites, and she was in a hurry, and when she did the paperwork, she didn’t add a notary signature.

And she had made the determination that her daughters who had cared for her throughout her life as things kind of started to physically break down, should receive what little she had and she had gone close to 40 years without speaking to the two older children.

Well, with her will not being valid, the money gets split amongst the four children. And there’s nothing you can do about it.

Well, I appreciate you joining me today. Tell me, do you have any last words of wisdom for our listeners? Maybe somebody out there thinking of doing this, opening up their own law firm.

the only person who limits you is you. If  you know you can do something and you stay the course, you will get where you’re supposed to be. The only limitation you have in life is you.

I love it. At least that’s what’s worked for me.

Viktoria Altman: I love it. Jane, thank you so much for joining us today. Really appreciate it. some really great words of wisdom there. Appreciate it, Jane.

Jane Fowler: Well, thank you very much. And to those folks out there, give it a go. Who knows? You might end up here.

Give it a go, guys. Thank you.