From Prosecutor to Defense Attorney: Robert Abtahi on Process, People, and Practical Growth

Viktoria Altman: Hey guys. Welcome Robert to the show. Robert, so nice to have you here. Do you want to tell us a little about yourself?

Robert Abhtahi: Sure, first and foremost, thanks for having me. my name’s Robert Abtahi. I’m one of the founders of Texas Defenders Law Firm in Dallas, Texas. we practice throughout the state of Texas, but our primary office is in Dallas. I grew up,in the Dallas area. always had a passion for helping people and navigated my way through law, and that’s how I ended up here.

Part of my past experiences of being a prosecutor, and now I’m on the other side of the table. if you look behind me, you can see some of my accolades from my younger days,as a prosecutor. now we help individuals who are charged with criminal offenses,in the state of Texas, primarily in Dallas, San Antonio, and the surrounding,suburbs.

Viktoria Altman (2): do you have any areas you focus in your practice or do you cover everything?

Robert Abhtahi: So we don’t do any federal cases.

all,state criminal,misdemeanors, felonies. the majority of our clients are professionals who find themselves in a tough spot. most of ’em are people who’ve been in trouble for the first time. when you think of criminal defense, a lot of people think of these TVs and movies and like things like the Lincoln Lawyer, but I’ve represented. as simple as a grandma who went to get a pedicure. nowadays at these,nail salons, they give you a couple glasses of wine. If they give you too many, then you could end up with an issue when you’re driving home. we’re a larger firm, but you get boutique service.

Viktoria Altman (2): Oh, I like that. A large firm with boutique service. why did you decide to get into criminal defense You’ve been practicing for 15 years or more.

Robert Abhtahi: It’ll be 19 years in November. it goes fast. live in a country with checks and balances, And that more,now than ever. I’ve always had a healthy skepticism of,government and government taking your rights

and so it really was something where it’s. fun to me. It’s exciting. you’re not standing behind a desk all day. you’re in the courthouse. You’re helping,people,that are just everyday people. at 27 years old,I was a. tax attorney and I really disliked it. financial crisis comes and,I took a job as a prosecutor in Dallas. it was known as a new position. called a community prosecutor. So you’re not actually at the courthouse I was embedded with the Dallas Police Department in,south Oak Cliff one of the most,high crime areas in the city. And while my friends were sitting behind desk. And worrying about billable hours. I was putting on a badge and a bulletproof vest and going on midnight raids. as a 27-year-old, it’s,exciting and exhilarating. My mom would tell you she couldn’t sleep those nights, but,that really got my love for a different path than law school would tell you.

Is the right path to success?

Viktoria Altman (2): That sounds really exciting and difficult and stressful. when we did our pre podcast call,you said to. Something that I thought was interesting you said that lawyers are in the customer service business first and foremost. I talk to a lot of attorneys, and most people wouldn’t put it that way.

So talk to me about that perspective.

Robert Abhtahi: it’s a perspective that really came to me. While I was in law school, you have these internships over the summer and I had,an internship with the judge and every month,every lawyer, they probably get their bar journal, Like the state bar of Texas every month produces a magazine. the Texas Bar Journal she was flipping through this magazine and most people, start with the front page, She flipped it over to the back and said, you know how I’m going to the back? And I said, why? She said, this is gonna tell us all the people who got in trouble with the bar this year. it’s a list of all the grievances filed. And she said, you know what? The number one reason lawyers get a grievance filed. I said, no, I don’t know. messing up the law, losing a case. She said, no, not calling people back. the number one complaint by far against attorneys is that they don’t communicate.

They don’t call people back. And that’s where that light bulb went off, wow, what a simple thing people are losing their licenses over this. And I think that’s the mentality that a lot of folks have like lawyers are this high-end, mighty I’m the lawyer, I’m the expert.

Let me just do my job and leave me alone. No, that’s not how it should be. This person is entrusting you with something extremely stressful, extremely important to them, if you win the case, great, but if the whole time you’re doing it, they don’t know what’s happening and you’re not answering their questions and you’re not putting their mind at ease, then they’re essentially being tortured. a shift in mindset,for a lot of attorneys would do them good. there are folks out there that get that, but I think the majority of folks see themselves. you always society things like doctors and lawyers. I always tell people the difference between me and a doctor is. You have a really complicated problem, let’s use a criminal case as an example. You have a really complex problem and you’re coming to a professional to solve your problem. Just like if you had a heart problem or a brain problem, you would go to a brain doctor or a heart doctor. The difference between me and the doctor is the doctor has a guy named the anesthesiologist. So when you go to him. He puts you to sleep, you wake up, everything’s fine. Can you imagine if you were awake while he was cutting you open if I could put you to sleep for six months wake you up and your case is over, you’d be great.

But unfortunately, you and I have to be awake during this process. So I have to keep you informed. I have to make sure we’re accessible. I have to put your mind at ease. that’s why when you see an attorney’s title, they call us lots of things. They call us lawyers, attorneys, but one thing people forget about is attorney and counselor. a lot of what we do is counseling helping people and putting people’s minds at ease. I’ve always seen this in the customer service business. you have to be competent, you have to do the work right. But if your client doesn’t trust in you, doesn’t believe in you, is upset with your level of communication, then what was the point of all of it,

Viktoria Altman (2): Well, I totally agree with you and I have certainly heard quite a few people. Not do well in their practice for no reason other than they’re not getting back. my company, we are not dealing with criminal issues of course, but I tell my employees that a client needs to hear back within two hours, even if it’s just to say we’re working in it.

And it should be never more than 24 hours,

I know a lot of clients and a lot of folks I talk to say I’m so busy and it’s hard for them to keep organized enough to call people back. Do you have any special tricks you use in your firm to make sure that everybody stays on track with that?

Robert Abhtahi: Sure. So one,we have a policy that we call everyone back within 24 hours, generally much quicker, like yours. I need to at least let them know we got your message, the attorney’s not available. Attorney will call you back. it goes back to what I said about customer service.

I’m too busy as a terrible mindset to have. If you’re too busy, you’ve got one or two problems. You’re either taking on more work than you can handle, or you don’t have a system or process in place to allow you to handle that work. if you’re too busy, then you need to take less work, or you need to put a system in place or get help.

we use,a whole suite of systems that probably other law firms use. Like my case, RingCentral for our phone system. you have to use those properly, there’s no excuse for a lawyer these days with the technology we have,to not get back to people and inform them about the updates of their cases.

But yeah,it’s something I find myself saying too. I’m too busy, It’s okay, so I’m too busy as a symptom of a problem, fix the problem. And if the problem is I need to delegate more, or find a tool to help me,then that’s a different story.

Viktoria Altman: Yeah, too busy to talk to a client is a problem. Is an internal. Problem, not an external problem.

Robert Abhtahi: Ex exactly.

Viktoria Altman: I agree with you. you talk a lot about,the fact that this is not just a job where you fix legal problems, you also help manage or ease your client’s stress. I focus quite a bit on client personas.

I discussed these in my book. Talk to me about different client personas. What people are you trying to attract and how do you deal with the stress they’re going through?

Robert Abhtahi: Oh, that’s a great question. We talk about this all the time. we’ve never referred it as client personas, but I’m gonna steal that. you really have a range of,individuals, if you’re looking at it on a spectrum, right? On this spectrum, you have the person who, looks you up, calls you, has a problem. Signs your paperwork pays you, and then you never hear from ’em again. And they, because they are, have total faith in you, total trust in you. whatever internal stress they have a way of managing it. And then on the other end, you have a individual who,is hyper stressed, hyper anxious,has either been burned by a lawyer in the past or burned by someone who has a mistrust.

And that person,will really, eat you alive. it’s a case that’s been going on for six months and they hire you six months after the case and all of a sudden you’re getting a call every hour. What’s the update? What’s going on? What have you done? It’s Hey, this has been going on for six months.

You hired us five minutes ago. We haven’t even drafted a letter of representation. The ideal client is like anything in life, somewhere in the middle, a balance. You don’t want someone who is so laissez-faire that they don’t care and they don’t show up to court and they don’t fill out paperwork.

you don’t want also someone who’s there two hours early. The court starts at nine. Hey, it’s seven o’clock. I’m at the courthouse. Where are you? court started at nine. Why are you there at seven? I’ve been sitting here for two hours. Yes, because court started at nine.

The doors don’t even open until, and it happens. We get it every week. So what I always tell folks is look. we have a separate issue here, just like we discussed the,different issue with,I’m too busy, the separate issue is, listen, you’re very stressed. I understand it, and it’s very easy for me to say this to you.

It’s way easier for me to say this to you than it is for you actually to do it. But I can’t fix your stress. I’m gonna try my best. I can explain everything, but if you’re still stressed after that, you need to find a way to de-stress yourself. That doesn’t involve drugs or alcohol. ’cause you probably have a criminal case and you’re not supposed to be doing that. what I tell folks is I’m not telling you this for my own benefit, it would benefit me greatly if you de-stressed. But when someone is stressed, when someone is so anxious that they can’t think clearly or Make a rational decision, that’s when we see a domino effect, I always tell people, hire us. We’ll fix your problem, but you gotta stay outta trouble. And they say, oh, I’ve never been in trouble before. It’s my first time. I won’t get in trouble again. But the level of stress and anxiety you make bad decisions

 like I said, attorney and counselor. Counselor, you’re trying to counsel them to, take a deep breath. Let’s think clearly, let’s think logically, let’s think rationally doesn’t always work but you gotta try to help people because otherwise it’s gonna mess up the case, it’s gonna mess up your own happiness.

that’s, super stressed and not caring enough, And then we want someone in the middle. We want balance, right?

Viktoria Altman (2): You know, if I ever got in trouble, hopefully never. I would love to have a lawyer. Like you represent me because you seem very, even headed. Is that a word? just like a balanced person.

Robert Abhtahi: it’s almost 20 years and 4,000 cases. If you talk to me 15 years, I was probably stressed, but yeah,That’s where some of these gray hairs in my beard. my kids laugh at me. They say, you’re getting old. I say, no, this is wisdom.

Viktoria Altman (2): Yeah, it’s funny because, we don’t deal with life or death situations, but I do have a lot of clients who come to me after having had bad experiences I compare them to an abused spouse, Because they just got out of a bad situation. I’m like, you have to give a chance. I get where you’re coming from, but you still have to give me a chance

I can’t compensate for what the other people did. it takes a lot to earn trust, especially when you have an industry where maybe not everybody’s doing the right thing. you are one of few criminal defense attorneys who I’ve spoken to that does direct

Talk to me about how that works

Robert Abhtahi: We started with direct mail one of the oldest games in town before you had SEO and digital, you had yellow pages and mail. you have to be careful because it can get expensive.

we use a scalpel, not a shotgun approach. if you’re getting a piece of mail from us, you were probably just released from jail because we use,publicly,available information. the slang term for it is the bond list. You get arrested, go to jail, post a bond. Everything is public. Nowadays, people see these mugshots online. it’s all public record. we don’t mail to people who do not have an active criminal case and who have not bonded out. if you can’t bond out, you’re still in jail, you probably will get a court appointed lawyer.

So number one,we are very targeted,number two, if someone is getting a mailer, they didn’t seek you. you ended up in their mailbox. it’s usually a quick turnaround. They may have gotten three or four mailers, or they may be going through a list, and if you don’t call them back quickly or if you don’t answer the phone, then they’re throwing your mailer away and they’re going the next guy.

it’s something that if you have a system and a process in place to capture those folks and to. Get in front of them quickly, then it works. However, if you’re the type that you wait a few days to call people back then you’re wasting your money on mail because you don’t have a way to convert those folks

Viktoria Altman (2): right. So it’s not just about getting the lead, it’s also about the follow up system afterwards. Absolutely agree with you there as well. Criminal defense has a very fast decision cycle, somebody gets arrested Friday and needs an attorney at the latest by Monday morning.

How does that shape your intake, your marketing,anything else you might be doing in your firm?

Robert Abhtahi: I tell people,they ask,what time do you close? I said, we don’t close. I’m at an office right now, and I’ll be home,this evening, but criminal defense happens 24 7. someone leaves a nightclub at 2:00 AM and they’re arrested at 3:00 AM Guess what?

Their friends and family are calling someone at 3:00 AM So we do have an intake process. Someone who answers our phones after hours. nowadays there’s AI answering services that can capture information. because of my. Previous life as a prosecutor and having gone out on late night raids.

I have a very bad sleep schedule. I’m usually asleep by eight or nine if I don’t have anything going on, but I’m awake at four or five and I call folks back if they called me at two, three in the morning on a Friday night and I’m awake on a Saturday, my family’s not awake yet. So I call folks back.

We have some reviews online. They’re funny. They’re like, this person called me back at 4:00 AM and someone’s that’s fake There’s no way. And I was like, no, that was me. I called them back at 4:00 AM because I woke up, got my coffee, I went to my computer, and it’s just like having respect for people, and having respect for what they’re going through and understanding that,the word criminal defense.

one, all my clients are innocent until proven guilty. So they’re not criminals, okay? They’re just human beings that made a mistake, A mistake that probably many folks could make after. a dinner party and maybe a couple of glasses of wine. Or even nowadays with THC, in certain states, THC marijuana is legal.

Someone moves from California, even Oklahoma, it’s legal in Oklahoma now. And so someone moves from another state, they move here and they have a medical marijuana card, or they have a,THC pen, not realizing in the state of Texas, A THC pen is a felony. So these are not,bad people.

They just made bad choices,or made a mistake, and so we help. Navigate them through the system we make sure that everything was done right, that their rights weren’t violated, that their rights are not violated in the future, and that they can keep their jobs, keep their livelihoods, things like that.

So I think there is a stigma,with it, but,at the end of the day,You gotta be willing to understand and put yourself in their shoes. we see a lot of criminal defense lawyers that are judgemental. they’re angry, they’re like yelling at their clients in the courthouse, and you’re like, what is happening?

This person’s paying you money and this is how you’re treating them. So it’s all about, you said it,earlier, it’s having a balance centered approach.

Viktoria Altman (2): One of my favorite clients, she’s a criminal attorney, and her headline is, I don’t judge you, I just defend you.

Robert Abhtahi: Absolutely. That’s a huge thing. because you already feel bad, right? as human beings, we make a mistake. sometimes we’re harder on ourselves than we should be. But the last thing you need is the person who’s supposed to help you saying, why would you do that?

What are you thinking? It’s that’s not what I’m here for. I’m here to help you navigate the system. The judge, literally, it’s in their title it’s the judge who will judge you. I’m here to make sure your rights were not violated.

Viktoria Altman (2): Makes sense.

so I talk about the shame factor to go back to what you just said in my book. for bankruptcy clients, for instance, they don’t want to tell anybody they’re struggling and they may not ask per referral. Criminal defense is similar. Do you get referrals when clients. Maybe don’t want anyone to know that they’ve used your services and how do you do that?

Robert Abhtahi: So

Viktoria Altman (2): I.

Robert Abhtahi: you’re a hundred percent right on that. it’s not just referrals, reviews, I just got this person out of this embarrassing situation. Now I’m asking them for an online review, but it’s gonna ask their name. Google will put a name or at least a username, and they’re very hesitant to do that, especially if they can’t be anonymous.

the answer is,You don’t want to push people, certain people have high profile jobs. They have,a license, doctor or nurse, and so they can’t be so public about it. usually what ends up happening is I call it the whisper factor, whenever we do feel shame, we don’t tell anyone You go out to a friend and you talk to a friend about it. Or nowadays you talk to Google about it, you talk to AI about it, then maybe you’re Googling and one of your buddies or your Facebook connection,shows that maybe they liked our Facebook page or left us a review and now all of a sudden you feel like, wait, I’m not alone. we don’t get a ton of. Business from word of mouth, but we do get probably 10 to 20% because once you go through the process, you realize this could happen to anyone. de-stigmatizing it. Same with bankruptcy or mental health We as a society,need to realize that no one’s perfect, people make mistakes and the only way to get over those mistakes and relieve your stress is to talk to folks.

So people who are most successful, whether it’s in business, law, anything, the people that I’ve seen are people who reach out. They ask for help. if you get laid off and you don’t tell anyone you lost your job, how can a friend let you know if there’s a job opening?

 if you’re ashamed, you’re not gonna open those doors for yourself.

Viktoria Altman (2): You’re right. Shame prevents people probably often from seeking help and then things get outta control. So you said you believe in baby steps and growing your firm very mindfully. and a lot of firms I know grow too fast. talk to me about that and what mistakes have you seen?

What mistakes have you avoided?

Robert Abhtahi: you must have been doing this for a long time because I think somehow through these questions we end up,in a theme,back to what you said earlier, I’m too busy. If you’re too busy, you grew too fast. If you’re too busy, you’re gonna make mistakes. You’re not gonna call people back.

You’re gonna get bad reviews, you’re gonna have unhappy clients. You may even get a bar complaint. we have a system that we use. it’s, cases opened, cases closed. sometimes more cases are open than closed. Sometimes more are closed than are opened. if we see a situation where we’re opening more cases than we’re closing, then we either need to hire another lawyer or another paralegal, or we need to slow down. there’s something, Broken in the process. we didn’t come to that overnight. when we first started we were probably keeping track of everything on an Excel sheet with post-it notes

But nowadays we use data and analytics to determine how long does a case stay in this stage? How long does the case stay in that stage? And so we use that approach to make sure that at the end of the day, we’re providing not just good legal service, but good customer service and responsible growth,

You don’t want a boom in a bust. there’s an old Warren Buffet quote people ask him, why do you talk so much about what you do Aren’t you afraid someone’s gonna copy you? And his response is, no, because people want to get rich quick. I’m telling you how to get rich slow. No one wants to get rich slow. take your time the get rich quick is booms and busts, you may do great for a year, but it’s gonna catch up to you.

you made an interesting point that there are probably 10 other lawyers that can handle a case in a similar way to you. so what makes a client choose you specifically, do you think?

internally we call that the Texas Defenders Difference. it goes to everything we said. when a client is calling 10 lawyers and someone calls them back quick, then they have their stuff together, okay? when they have a process of intake, when it’s not,talking on a cell phone in the back of the courthouse, with noise in the background, this person has a system, This person has a process and. That way that client knows that nothing’s gonna fall through the cracks.

Sure. You have to be competitive on pricing. you have to do a good job, but if all other things are equal, If I’m the same price and the same,quality of attorney as another person,then let me sell you on the fact that I called you back quick. That I got you your documents quick that I have a system and a process.

And let me tell you why that’s important. That’s part of this Texas defender’s difference, One, we’re gonna put your mind at ease so you can focus on your life, your job, your family. You are paying us to take this stress away from you. It becomes my stress now. two, through my interactions with you, if I am meticulous, quick, if I am on top of it, if I have a system and a process, that’s how I interact with the court. That’s how I interact with a prosecutor. A prosecutor knows if I’m saying something, I can back it up. A prosecutor knows if I’m gonna file something, it’s gonna get done on time. A judge knows that I’m not gonna miss a deadline. A judge knows that my client will be in court when they need to be, because they’re gonna get a text message reminder.

They’re gonna get an email reminder. It’s a profession, not a hobby, we harp on that a lot amongst the staff, amongst our other attorneys. That Texas Defender’s difference is really,a holistic approach and it goes back to customer service. not growing too fast.

It’s all these things It’s a lot, right? But this is the business we’ve chosen and there are people that have that entrepreneurial spirit and can work on their own. If they can’t, then you should go apply for a job somewhere. Go let someone else handle all that.

Viktoria Altman (2): So I tell my kids that conscientiousness is probably the number one thing that has helped people succeed. if you are conscientious and reasonably smart, you don’t even have to be a genius. You are already 99% ahead of like everybody.

Robert Abhtahi: Absolutely knowing your strengths and your weaknesses

Viktoria Altman (2): Yeah.

Robert Abhtahi: honest with yourself about ’em and finding people who, compliment you. I don’t have a lot of patience, so my partner David Pema, has a ton of patience. when there’s a situation where my patience is gonna run out, I realize I need to bring him in

Viktoria Altman (2): I love it. when I ran outta patients, I passed whoever I’m dealing with to one of my very, very patient employees you’ve been in business for a long time. One of my favorite question is, talk to me about something that didn’t work out in marketing and why.

Robert Abhtahi: Oh gosh. I’ll tell you, I got a good one. we had this genius idea, we talked about our mail and public records, in criminal defense, once a case is dismissed in a certain way, you’re eligible to have your records expunged.

And an expunction is something you would hire us to do. We would file a petition and your records are cleared, so your mugshot is gone online, the records are cleared. Most people don’t realize that even if a case is dismissed, the record of the arrest and the report is still there. Cases are public record, right? So we have this genius idea to get a list of every case that was dismissed in,Dallas County over the last five years since it was dismissed, it still shows up on the record. We have a record of it. And we spent all this money mailing folks information on expunctions

And it was a lot. it was about 10, 15,000 people. We did not sign up a single expunction we did not think it through.one, if this person still has a case on their record, they just either don’t care or they can’t afford an expunction or two, they would go to the lawyer who got the case dismissed for them.

So That was a revelation, but we got a ton of calls from people who weren’t eligible. For example, they may have gotten this case dismissed, but they had another conviction on their record. those people were very desperate to clear their records. our mailer gave them false hope because when they called us and we went through the process, we realized, Hey, sorry, you’re not eligible, why are you mailing me this then?

A great question. I don’t know.

Viktoria Altman: That’s hilarious.

Robert Abhtahi: yeah, it was, inexperience and, you get greedy. You’re like, oh, this should work.

Viktoria Altman (2): Yeah, it sounds like a great idea in theory. I love it. So what’s next for you, for your firm? What direction are you taking your firm into.

Robert Abhtahi: Yeah, so we’re growing. we,just,moved offices. We acquired a building in East Dallas. It’s actually a historic building,we have some Bonnie and Clyde history here. Bonnie Parker,worked in this building when it was a cafe about a hundred years ago, so what better headquarters for a criminal defense firm than,Bonnie and Clyde building. we’re looking at expanding, Dallas. Is,one of the host cities for the World Cup. we know we’re gonna have a lot of people here over the summer who may not know the rules,in Texas as it involves THC,or,drinking and all those other things. so we’re gonna probably,have a growth mindset this summer. we’re in,two cities currently, Dallas and San Antonio. they’re large metro areas. probably looking to expand to another city in the next year or so. everything’s about our brand. The Texas Defender’s brand is very strong. We have more,five star reviews, than any other attorney in Dallas and San Antonio. I don’t know if you notice this, my shirt. It’s these are little,state of texases. On here. So very thoughtful in, even what we wear on a a day out basis. we’re just slowly slow but steady.

me and my partner have a,saying chop wood carry water. if it’s working, keep doing it.

Viktoria Altman (2): That’s awesome and you are. Ahead of the game when it comes to ai, AI is all about branding and recognizing the holistic entity,and recognizing you as quote unquote expert in a specific field. There’s actually an algorithm that evaluates an attorney,and it’s called EAT, which stands for experience, expertise, authority, and trustworthiness.

when you have a brand associated with all these things, you’re going to be cited Much more often than someone who doesn’t. a lot of folks in my business spend many years doing cheap tricks and now I have all these people coming in who don’t have a good brand. that’s something I have to be working on very quickly.

it’s great that you guys are ahead of schedule is that something you decided to do originally or how did you focus on that?

Not really. I.

Robert Abhtahi: you learn that,your business will take on your identity, and just as a human being, you wanna live up to your word, You want to do things when you’re gone. You want people to say nice things about you. And when you’re here, you want people to trust in you.

if you’re in it for the long haul and for the right reasons, doing the right thing by people so that you can go to bed at night, and sleep easy with what you’re doing. it developed over time. just like. my interactions with you, you’ve been on top of it.

you told me what time we’re gonna meet. You sent me the questions. the rest will work itself out, and I think you’re right. folks try to do a lot of cheap tricks, just like cheap products don’t last very long and You end up in a never ending cycle.

But if you build your foundation and do things for the right reasons, then hopefully the AI picks up on it. if you chop wood and carry water and do good work, then surely you’ll end up there.

Viktoria Altman (2): in marketing we have a saying best kind of marketing is doing, which I don’t know if that’s best kind of marketing, but it’s very good marketing.

Robert Abhtahi: that’s what we thought on those mailers for expunction.

if we had someone like you advising us, we probably wouldn’t have made that mistake.

Viktoria Altman (2): I’m available. closing questions. I’m a big reader. what is your favorite nonfiction book and why?

Robert Abhtahi: Okay,

we’re gonna go full circle. I love to read. I’m just too busy. but I did just,read a book on,the history of,a very ancient culture an old,Persian culture. my family,has roots from,Iran, and it’s something I really wanted to learn about.

I love reading about history. I love reading. things like Sun Tsu, art of War,Marcus Aurelius. learning from the past, right? And when I say I don’t have time, I don’t have time for leisure reading, but if I can read something that’ll help me improve my life, improve my,business, then I try to read things that are,like boring, self-help history, things like that.

Also calm your mind.

Viktoria Altman (2): I actually love history, so I read a lot of history as well. do you have any last words of wisdom for a criminal defense attorney out there who might be thinking about starting their own practice?

Robert Abhtahi: I would say baby steps. Take a centered approach. Know your weaknesses, know your strengths, and if what you’re doing is working and getting good results. Just chop wood and carry water. Don’t get distracted. There’s a tendency at the courthouse, to get,involved in the drama of all the other lawyers and what’s going on in their lives.

And if you’re spending your time talking to lawyers all day, then you’re not spending your time talking to clients. Think of it first and foremost, like a lemonade stand. it’s the easiest business model to practice. Every business. You can boil it down to a lemonade stand, and if you think about it like that starting out, then you can slowly grow into something a little more complex and maybe one day you’ll be like Texas defenders.

Viktoria Altman (2): Awesome. I love it. That’s great entrepreneurial advice. Thank you so much Robert. It was a pleasure.